Leszek Miller from 2001 to 2004, Prime Minister of Poland. In an Interview with DW, he explained, to catch up why Poland other member countries of the European Union.
DW: you led Poland 15 years ago in the European Union. How was the atmosphere in the country?
Miller: she was full of expectations, But she was also full of political struggles. We organized in June 2003, a Referendum should show whether the poles want under the negotiated conditions of accession to the EU. We had to work hard to achieve a good result. The whole government went to Poland, met with young people in schools, workers in factories and farmers, who had the biggest doubts. The work paid off, because almost 80 percent of the participants voted for the accession. This was a victory for the pro-European forces.
What the opponents were afraid of?
The circles, which wanted to convince the people of a “no” in the Referendum, had similar arguments as the Anti-Europeans today. Above all, it was about the fact that Poland will lose its sovereignty, that our identity melts away in this huge EU, and that Poland is no longer Poland. Secondly, there were fears of farmers that the Germans would totally buy legally their old territories, because the country is in Poland cheaper than in Germany. The third Argument was that the highly efficient agriculture of the West, destroyed our agriculture, and we export nothing more. And it was afraid that the quality of life decreases. Most did not come true, but some aspects of that campaign, we are listening to today, especially the story with the loss of sovereignty and the enemy image of Germany.
The policy has found in the past few years, probably no answer to these Fears?
There are clear arguments against it. We have benefited in the 15 years and a civilizational leap managed. Our country received 110 billion euros net, i.e. after deduction of our payments out of a total of 60 billion Euro. The money can be seen everywhere, if you drive through Poland: You can see it on the streets, at the railway stations, in the cities, in the company.
June 2002 in Warsaw: When Schroeder was still Chancellor, and Miller was still Prime Minister.
But it’s not just the money, there is also the possibility of travel, choice of residence and place of work. Of course I prefer it when young poles to work in Poland, but no one can forbid it to them to find work outside the country.
Poland is facing a huge demographic Problem. The boys peel off and Polish women give birth in other EU countries, more children than in the home country.
This is due to the different standards of living. As we joined 15 years ago, the EU, the gross national income per capita at 42, 43 percent of the EU average. After 15 years, we have achieved around 70 per cent of the EU average. The median income in Poland is two to two and a half times lower than the median income in the EU. A part of our citizens will continue to seek work outside the country, as long as these differences exist. The only changes, if the standards of living, and government services such as health care and education, to align.
The rightwing PiS party has recognized this gap, which has grown after Poland’s accession to the EU. She has won with their social policy, and the elections.
Yes, PiS has launched a lot of transfers and that helps, of course, many poles. But PiS could start these social payments also because of the 110 billion Euro flowed into the country.
A majority of Poland is in favour of according to Eurobarometer, the EU-membership. In the polls for the European elections in may, PiS, however, in the first place – a party that is more often get into conflict with Brussels. What the EU want the poles?
The visions do not differ, there is only one in Poland. There is the euro-enthusiastic ideas, which are based on the fact that the Union should incorporate the European institutions should receive a higher priority and that there should be a common Foreign-, financial-, tax-, wage policy. The other course is the opposite: You want to approach to a concept, the Charles de Gaulle as the Europe of Nations has described: a greater importance of the nation-States and loose Integration. From the point of view of the PiS party, the best Integration would be one that takes place only on an economic level. We are therefore working together on an economic level, but without common values, without the observance of a separation of powers and an independent judicial system.
What did you think, as Emmanuel Macron was suddenly declared to be the new leader of the EU?
To me, the Manifesto, in which he writes liked that Europe needs a new enlightenment. I think it is a pity that this document has led in Poland, no discussion. Neither the Prime Minister nor the President have taken a position on. It went without a great deal of attention to us. Macron is now the informal leader of the pro-European movement.
Macron is a supporter of a Europe of two speeds, i.e. the axis between Paris and Berlin, in Poland.
I must confess: I think a two-speed Europe. The first speed is in the Eurozone, which will have a Budget of their own. Poland belongs, unfortunately, to the second speed.
A little probable Option: The Brexit deters Poland more
If we imagine a train in the direction of a common Europe, then we will sit in the second class. And it bothers me very much, but I’m counting on that, according to PiS, a different political orientation comes to the government, which will give anything, that Poland’s first speed unlocks.Leszek Miller
In the past few months, the speech was in Polish media about the “Polexit”. Do you think the Polexit is a real scenario?
I do not think that the PiS-exclude strategists “Polexit”. But maybe you understand it differently, as the UK has understood him. What happens in the UK, deters imitators. The right-wing populist movements, whether Le Pen in France or Matteo Salvini in Italy, do not want to lead their countries out of the EU. But they will do everything to change the EU according to their ideas, and to disturb the process of Integration. This can lead in the future to collapse. This is even worse than if you leave entirely. This is a Trojan horse.
PiS is different from the movements in France or in Italy, the history of the Polish policy is another. Where does the doubt about the EU in Poland today?
The doubt is at Brussels best expressed by the Slogan: Earlier in Moscow, today. Nothing has changed so We poor poles are finally up from the knees, where we knelt the whole time, in front of Brussels, and thanks to the PiS. There is this desire of liberation from the subjugation. A large part of Poland believes. Then there is the Problem of the refugees. Angela Merkel has committed a few years ago a mistake. They consulted no other leader in the EU and dealt with applicable law, as she has opened on his own in the border. This has shaken the community of the EU.